Albion's Seedlings

Mr. Rasmussen seems to be handling this very well on his own. How many political chips do you want to use up on this issue while others are cobbling together a coalition against Iran or Syria that will require plenty of Islamic participation, overt or covert? Remember that Franco managed to die in his bed with no measurable impact on the advance of freedom after our war to rid Europe of fascism.

"How many political chips do you want to use up on this issue while others are cobbling together a coalition against Iran or Syria that will require plenty of Islamic participation, overt or covert?"

Since one of the most powerful bargaining chips in any negotiation is a loaded pistol held to the other guys' head, this comes along as a good chance to make those governments squirm. It would do them good to see our diplomatic overtures as a gesture of mercy rather than their due.

Muslim countries can boycott Danish butter and Denmark can boycott Muslim countries' labor units/migrants. Let's see who cries uncle first.

How will the Saudis survive without their Bang & Olufsen speakers?

How will the Saudis survive when their oil is worth less than $5 a barrel? It won't be long now. The IQ of the average Saudi is approximately 80. But the requirement to maintain a modern technological society is an average IQ of 90. Without oil revenues and the import of foreign slaves/workers, the Saudis are no better than Bangladeshis. Oh, the humiliation.

Harper is not yet Prime Minister. You'll have to wait until Feb 6.

Michael J Smith - Why? I didn't limit my plea to heads of government. Indeed, it might be better if heads of government stayed out of it until invited. But I'm appalled that not one Congressman or one MP has stood up in their national debating chamber and tabled a motion unequivocally condemning these threats to the freedom of the Danish press and putting support for Denmark on the record.

Too pathetic: from Dhimmiwatch.org "The Norwegian foreign ministry on Thursday asked its diplomats posted in Muslim countries to express their "regrets" to their host governments about the re-printing of the cartoons."

Regrets for what, I wonder? Regrets for exercising constitutional democracy? Regrets for having freedom of the press? Regrets for its forebears during WWII having fought and died to preserve free speech?

Or couched as "regrets that adherents of the pacific Religion of Peace were offended" which is the same thing, but dressed up in tart's clothing.

Verity is right. It is a disgrace that we are not standing by the Danes. The countries that are interfearing with the internal affairs of Denmark and the freedom of the Danish people are declairing that they are the common enimies of mankind.

Long Live Anders Rasmussen and the Danish Constitution!

God Save Queen Margrethe!

G'day,

Perhaps you might want to dowload the following comic book and pass it around.

http://islamcomicbook.com/index.htm

ta

Ralph

Note that the Norwegian government has already apologized for its magazine's indiscretions, indeed, they have instructed all their embassies to issue such apologies and all of this seems to have been done in a real hurry.

//www.dagbladet.no/nyheter/2006/01/26/455939.html

Here's an English link:

Norway Apologizes for RoP cartoons

http://www.brusselsjournal.com/node/722

One could purchase some Lurpak Butter and that may even things out a bit.

The best way to show solidarity with the cultural editor is to express your own right to depict Mohammed.

The United States has this crazy thing called Free Speech, and I am exercising my right to it by producing my own series of Mohammed cartoons.

Go ahead, Saudi Arabia. Boycott me.

You would think that at least some newspapers would support the Danes. Freedom of speech may not be the same in Denmark, but the muslims are bound to start demanding submission to their twisted thinking here as well. I bet CAIR already has someone working on it. Vision, patientence and persistence is the only way to win the WOT. Will the West blink first? Looks like they already have.

If the Saudis want to run a boycott of Danish products, then we can run a girlcott - which means deliberately buying Danish products as a show of support. Butter cookies all around! And cheese and beer. And what else do Danes make?

Denmarks's official Website is here. Its comments page is here

Addresses:

Embassy of Denmark
3200 Whitehaven St., N.W.
Washington, D.C. 20008
Tel: +1 (202) 234-4300
Fax: +1 (202) 328-1470
Email: wasamb@um.dk

Ministry of Foreign Affairs of Denmark
2, Asiatisk Plads
DK-1448 Copenhagen K
Denmark
E-mail um@um.dk

The Prime Minister's Office
Christiansborg
Prins Jørgens Gård 11
1218 Copenhagen K
Denmark
E-mail stm@stm.dk

Lurpak butter is wonderful. I think they do yogurt as well. (Not Dannon. That's French.)

We might also want to consider boycotting Norwegian products, if any.

People might like to consider emailing their Congressperson and asking whether they will be making a statement of support of the brave Danes. Now that Norway's caved, they're standing alone.

It is a myth that during WWII, when the Germans ordered Danish Jews to wear a yellow Star of David, the King put a yellow star on his own uniform. However, it is said the myth had a basis in fact: When the occupying Germans mooted the idea, the King told them that he would be the first in the country to wear one. Thus, having their plan for humiliation rendered pointless, the Germans never issued the order.

In any event, the Danes have a history of bravery and daring, as the English know better than anyone, as we paid them millions of pounds in Danegeld over around 14 years about 1,000 years ago or more. They got so confident that they stopped even bothering to invade in the latter years. They just faxed over the ETA of the invasion and the English got the money together and sent it over. So everyone stayed warm and dry.

The Muslims are offended by the cartoons. Fine. Well I am offended by the fact that Muslim's honor and respect a man like Mohammed - who, according to Islam's own traditions (Hadiths) murdered, took slaves, tortured and even beat his favorite wife. I am offended by the hate and anger in the Quran directed at non-Muslims. I will match my 'offended' against their 'offended' anyday. Does this guy deserve respect? How about the victims? Muslims are either in denial or dishonest.

Why does a Muslim's right not to be offended supercede my right to an opinion and to express that opinion? The fact is that Muslims want for themselves what they deny to others.

The best discussion on this issue is at
http://forum.newspaperindex.com/

See the post at
http://forum.newspaperindex.com/viewtopic.php?t=12
for a better understanding of what is at stake.

This is just a small part of a much bigger global issue that will affect all of us - and unless people take a stand and tell Muslims the truths they do not want to hear, it will get worse. Many innocent people are going to get hurt, because of the hate and anger in the Quran, and because of Muslims' inability to accept and respect others. Personally, I am very pessimistic. Bad times are coming.

John Kactuz

Please post a list of Danish exports. I could use some in California.

The Jyllands Posten Cartoons. Note the proper spelling of the paper.

How about you boycott Arab products like say, oil? lol

As with paying ransom and other forms of Dane geld, watch for more of this, as countries with economic leverage threaten other countries in order to silence critics.

In this instance, the connection between madmen at the oil spigots holding the global economy hostage and the freedoms the West enjoys couldn't be more clear.

Similarly, when criticism of China jeopardizes a lucrative contract with Beijing -- and with it hundreds or thousands of jobs -- self-censorship will appear pragmatic.

Cost-free moral showboating -- massive street protests, papier mache puppets and vicious name-calling, all aimed at a superpower which rarely complains, much less retaliates -- will be seen for the empty gestures they are.

When we have to start paying a price for free speech, we'll see just how strong our commitment is. My guess is that the commitment, for most people, is no deeper than the shallow whining we hear in the West about 'stifling dissent.'

We have no idea how good we've had it.

We did our part. The message of support to the Danish people has had echoes in the francophone blogosphere, none in the anglosphere. Please spread:
http://extremecentre.org/?p=399
Now we are arguing on the blog with muslims (in French), and still waiting for a sign form that rare soul, the moderate, peaceful and tolerant muslim who, while offended by the caricatures, will support the right to draw and publish them.

Well, boycotting oil seems to be somewhat of a long-term proposition but I certainly hope the groundwork will be laid asap, i.e. more "nucular" power, which W. will hopefully embrace on Tue.

In the meantime, I very much second the proposals above to buy LOTS of Danish products and boycott Norwegian ones. Which means that I will be drinking Carlsberg beer tonight.

IIRC, the chief export of Norway is oil?

Thank you Ralph for publishing the web site (http://islamcomicbook.com/index.htm) where we can view and download the "offensive" comic book. I saw it and it is delightful. The various koranic parables are well illustrated with accompanying koranic/hadith proofs. Ralph deserves our thanks and this website needs WIDE dissemination- the best form of protest (publicity)
Natraj

Yes, we could offset the boycott simply by buying Danish. Mmm, beer, butter cookies, ham (?), electronics.

But let's get serious and let the Saudis subject themselves to autarky. Evidently all that is necessary to find one paper in every country to reprint the cartoons. 2 down, 180 or so to go. We could start with the biggest sources of imports into KSA - i.e., U.S., Japan, UK.

You can't eat or drink oil.

I don't care so much about politicians, but I would think some of the press who believe in free speech could come out and reprint the cartoons. If the cartoons were reprinted in 1000 newspapers, the issue would collapse. By allowing Denmark to be singled out, we all lose.

There's a theory out there that the reason the Saudi's are flogging this dead issue is that they REALLY want to distract interest from hundreds dead in their yearly haj massacre. And they're trying to change the subject.

Watch their hands and PRESTO CHANGO! No dead pilgrims, and pissed-off Muslims in their place.

Jim of Mountain View - I understand some papers - sorry, I don't know from which countries - asked for permission to publish the cartoons, but the Jyllands Posten will only give permission if the cartoons are accompanied by the original article, translated but unchanged.

I would still like to see a national politician stand up in their debating chamber and table a motion in support of Denmark. We need to make this thickheads understand that when they attack one of us, they attack all of us, and we'll stand by one another in the cause of freedom of speech. It is absolutely outrageous that they think they have a right to apply an Islamic religious law in a free country. The sheer impertinence takes the breath away. But so does the lack of response from our politicians.

Even if a statement came out of a state capital, from a governor, it would be worth having. Don't forget, Texas declared war on Germany!

UPDATE: Watch out for the last resort of lefty/fascist scoundrels - "international law". The World Muslim League, whatever that is, has now called on the UN to intervene.

I quote from Dhimmiwatch.org: "Moreover, he called on Annan to immediately and directly contact the Danish and Norwegian governments to demand them to ban media campaigns against Islam and to officially apologize for the Muslim nation.

"Al-Turki also called on the international community to adopt a clear law criminalizing individuals and institutions that disrespect religions."

Somehow, I think the Saudis won't be declining to import Danish insulin, being that something like 80% of the worlds insulin is made there.

Much love to the Danes! The noblest, bravest (and hottest!) people in Europe.

Is it a coincidence that back in WWII when other Euros were happily cooperating with the Nazis and sending Jews to their death, the Danes, for the most part, refused. I don't think any western European country had a better record of resisting the Nazi plans than the Danes.

Once again we see the Danes acting while the Euroweenies capitulate.

I'm going to go out and buy some kind of Danish product (and no, I don't mean a pastry).

Don't be surprised by Norway's quisling approach. They literally watched as the Nazis took their country. The Danes, on the other, saved almost all of their Jews. To hell with Norway. God bless Denmark.

They are offended by the exercise of free speech in a free, non-arab/islamic country. I am horrified by the DEATHS the religion of peace has caused.

When I hear an apology for the second, I MIGHT consider an apology for the first. I am a firm believer in freedom of speech. If we do not protect it, protest against its restriction, one of our most cherished freedoms will be gone.

You say when I you hear an apology for murders in the name of Islam, you might consider apologising for the free speech under which these cartoons were published.

That doesn't make sense. There is no compromise in freedom of speech or freedom of the press.

On what date did the comics originally run?

The anniversary of that date should hereafter be known as International Freedom of the Press Day, to be celebrated with the eating of pork, much like Thanksgiving in the US is celebrated with turkey.

Again from Dhimmiwatch.org, here is the response to an email of support from an executive of Arla - the Danish international food company whose products are now being swept off the shelves of the supermarkets of Saudi Arabia:

"Thank you for your e-mail and your support.
You can find our products in the cheese deli in most supermarkets. We market the following products here in the US:

Rosenborg - Blue cheeses
Denmarks Finest - Havarti (an imported mild and creamy yellow cheese)
Lurpak - Butter
Dofino - Havarti (produced in Wisconsin)
Mediterra - Feta

You can also visit our website for further information: arlafoodsusa.com

You should be able to find our products in most stores, but certainly in Safeway, Albertsons and Costco."

Is it legal for me in Denmark to draw a cartoon of a big-nosed jew with bleeding lips and money in his hand?

You say, "Is it legal for me in Denmark to draw a cartoon of a big-nosed jew with bleeding lips and money in his hand?"

Of course it is!

Freedom of speech is a muscular freedom. Freedom of speech and freedom of the press is all or nothing at all. As Denmark is, with such incredible bravery, demonstrating.

And they're doing it all by themselves - in a world of around 300 countries.

Axion: "Free speech requires thick skin." I am a Roman Catholic. There is much vile anti-Catholic writing out there. I detest the people who circulate it. I have no problem with counter-protesting or otherwise responding to speech with more and better speech. But I would not for a moment dream that the proper response would be to have the Government interfere with their free speech. Free speech and free exercise of religion means that people are free to attack you verbally, just as you are free to circulate your own opinions and beliefs. It all comes with the territory. The Muslims are going to have to learn to have thick skins if they want to live in a free society. They are pathetically faiing this early test.

Lex says: "The Muslims are going to have to learn to have thick skins if they want to live in a free society."

They don't.

"They don't."

Perhaps an overstatement, if the USA is included. The Muslims I meet in the USA seem content to live here and accomodate themselves to the USA and its way of life. Mostly. Which is just fine. The don't like the moral cesspool of our popular culture, or what their children get exposed to, but neither do I. But they seem happy to use the available means to deal with that.

To the extent that some Muslims feel otherwise, the Euros may decide to ditch free speech out of political correctness. Political freedom is not a native plant on the Continent, after all. It may not last forever there. They may be willing to buy temporary civil peace at the price of a demanding type of freedom. It would be weak and wrong, but not unfathomable for them to do so.

Not so in the USA. PC has only made inroads in some places. We still have robust free speech here. God bless America. May it ever be thus.

What Lex said

"Al-Turki also called on the international community to adopt a clear law criminalizing individuals and institutions that disrespect religions."

So does that mean that a church is scheduled to open in Saudi Arabia next week, or next month, or next year? Does that mean they will be returning confiscated Bibles and generally not penalizing everyone who isn't a Moslem?

Answer those questions, Mr. Turki, and then re-explain exactly what your support for a law that criminalizes disrespect for religion means.

"Al-Turki also called on the international community to adopt a clear law criminalizing individuals and institutions that disrespect religions."

But, somehow, I'm sure this won't be extended to cover 'art' like 'Piss Christ,' or the rantings of loudmouthed imams about infidels as pigs and monkeys.

And, of course, the usual guilt-ridden, self-loathing suspects will see nothing wrong . . .

Lex, you get a better educated Muslim immigrating to the US, that is absolutely true. And figures show - I don't have them to hand, but they can be Googled easily enough - that the most successful Arab immigrants to the United States are Christians.

Nevertheless, you are correct. Even the Muslims are better educated than those so inexplicably allowed into Britain and Europe.

That said, the Muslims in the US are no less determined to convert the United States into a Muslim country. They just go about it in a far sophisticated, better educated, way. Look at CAIR's website and read their press releases and the articles they place in publications. There are instruction books on how to ingratiate yourself with your children's teachers and they even offer precise guidance on the exact moment to invite the teacher over to dinner "to enjoy a delicious Middle Eastern meal". And explain Islam.

There are people with anodyne titles like "cultural trainer" who go round schools explaining Islam. No one goes around schools explaining Judaism or Buddhism, if I remember correctly. There is a school in California being sued for having a three week course for third graders on "being a Muslim", - during which the children had to choose a Muslim name to be known as during those three weeks, had to learn how it felt to be a Muslim during Ramadan by giving something they loved up for the three weeks, had to recite Muslim prayers, etc. The parents sued the school and - it was CA, remember - lost. However, the parents sought and won permission to bring the case again, and they have Robert Spencer, Chairman of Jihad Watch as an expert witness.

These people will stop at nothing - as in taking their laughable grievance to the United Nations, recalling ambassadors, bringing sanctions against private companies who have nothing to do with the government, etc, and they adjust their methods according to their circumstances.

I am not tarring them all with the same brush. I am certain there are Muslims who are at peace with their religion and themselves and just want to get on with building their lives, enjoying themselves and getting ahead. But we should be aware that there is a worldwide agenda and the West has been over-confident and dismissive.

That is why I am alarmed that not one politician in the free West has gone on record as supporting Mr Rasmussen's very brave stance. That he has drawn a line in the sand and refused to budge over a traditional Western freedom is for all our benefit.

'Al-Turki also called on the international community to adopt a clear law criminalizing individuals and institutions that disrespect religions."

Curiously enough, a glance at memri.org's citations from the Saudi press indicates that they have no problem officially disrespeting Judaism. I wonder why that is...actually no, I don't.

Iran has announced it is going to blow Israel off the map. Does that count as disrespect?

Carlsberg beer? Goes down extremely well with my mom's braised duck. Yum! Maybe I should buy more bottles to store at home. Some support for the Danes, even if they seem fine on their own.

BTW, for those who care, happy chinese new year!

Shieh-shieh nee, Wobbly! Gong Xi Fa Cai!

I have reproduced the comics in question here and I recommend that all bloggers who want to stand up to the bullies copy the zip file from my site and post the images on their own sites.

Verity:

You say when I you hear an apology for murders in the name of Islam, you might consider apologising for the free speech under which these cartoons were published.

That doesn't make sense. There is no compromise in freedom of speech or freedom of the press.

I don't see a contradiction. After Saudi Arabia apologizes for the violent deaths caused by the religion of peace, I would apologize for our freedom of the press, which may say things which offend others.

That does not mean that I would suggest rescinding those free speech rights, but simply acknowledge that sometimes one's feelings might be hurt by them. I would then point out some of the many articles in the (government-sanctioned) Arab Times which have offended me, and tell them where to get off.

Because, timekeeper, with respect, one should never apologise for freedom. It is weak to do so; indeed, it's odd.

You note that many articles in the government sanctioned Arab Times have offended you, but I do not see that this should be mentioned in the context of freedom of speech, which is non-negotiable. So their writing offended you and I am guessing would offend me, too, but if we agree that freedom to say and write as we choose is non-negotiable, then we agree to take the hits from the other side sometimes.

The hardline Muslims are unable to understand this. Even many who live in the West cannot understand that in the free-for-all of free speech, lots of people are going to be offended lots of the time.

So what?

Well, well. A Western political leader has finally entered the fray. And a huge name, at that. Bill Clinton, and he's ... on the wrong side!

Speaking in Doha, he called the cartoons "appalling". So, I guess no support for Anders Rasmussen there, then.

Quote: "None of us are free of stereotypes about people of different races, different ethnic groups and different religions ... there was this appalling example in northern Europe, Denmark ... these totally outrageous cartoons against Islam."

He doesn't seem to have made any comments about the freely available videos of the beheadings of human beings.

What is appalling is that this remark should come from an American, and a former president and defender of the freedom of speech. The best that can be said for this hateful behaviour is, it has given the enemies of Hillary Clinton, who will find it difficult to dissociate herself from his comments, some ace ammunition.

This conflict appears to be escalating: Libya has recalled its ambassador; Bahrain's "parliament" is meeting to discuss it in what is being called "an extraordinary session"; the Bin Laden-loving Kuwaitis (they never deserved rescuing from Saddam) are trying to get Danish products removed from the shelves in the Arab world; and now the disgraced former US president (who is largely responsible for the ethnic cleansing of Christians in Kosovo) has got into the act.

It seems to me as though a sharp escalation began as soon as Norway apologised. Danish exporters have also apologised with advertisements in Saudi newspapers. These displays of weakness have the Muslims smelling blood.

Hey, just wanted to thank you for not putting "the Prophet" before Mohammed. That annoys me to no end when non-Muslims do that.

It’s much more then just a ban on Danish exports:

The Muslims are burning Danish and Norwegian flags.
Danish people have been beaten in Mekka (Saudi-Arabia).
Armed Muslims have attacked/ and occupied an EU office in Gaza, demanding an official apology form Denmark.
The Danish Red Cross has been evacuated from the Middle East because of threats.
The Mujahideen has claimed holy war on all Danish- and Norwegian targets.
And so on…

As a Dane I’m proud of our rights to freedom of speech, and I don’t feel that Denmark (or any western country), should EVER apologise for something we print or say in our own countries. If the Muslims can’t accept it, TO BAD, I just hope more western countries will support the fight for free speech (and journalism), and condemn the Muslim actions.

Today US ex-president Clinton condemned the cartoons, because they portray Muslims in a negative way...Is he serious? The pictures are nothing, compared to the Muslim reaction!! It is our right to print whatever we feel like (within the constitution), so why apologise as a country, for something a newspaper does?

The current poles show that only 15% of all Danes feel we have anything to apologise. So it’s going to be a REALY cold day in hell when the Danes apologises to the Muslims.

The Dane - That's the spirit, and there are hundreds of thousands of people steeped in democracy who support Denmark. I bought Lurpak butter today, although I normally buy New Zealand Fern. However, as Arla has apologised, that will be the last pack of Lurpak I'll buy.

I wonder how much Qatr was paying him for the visit and speech. What a sleaze!

I wouldn say that Arla or Jyllandsposten have appologised, they have just tried to explain to the brain dead arab, that what an private owned newspaper in Denmark prints is no goverment matter, but as stupid as the arabs are they can`t realise that, and demand our goverment to take legal action and ban futher publishing. But the Danish goverment will never give in for these ridicoulous demands. And for further notice i have just read an statement from the Norwegian foreign ministry declining that the have apologised for the printing in the Norwegian newspaper. But from now and on its an political chess game, and i truly hope the Danish and Norwegian gorverments stands firm. Hail Scandinavia

Yes, Viking Warrior, hail Scandinavia indeed. While the rest of the world is a-quivver, the Vikings are strong and steadfast. The nerves of steel this is taking cannot be overestimated.

No one so far has explained why no politician in the West - from anyone in the Anglosphere (we will draw a veil, if not a complete chador, over ex-President Clinton) has not publicly come to the aid of these two free-spirited countries.

It doesn't have to be a head of government; an MP or a Congressperson would do - just to demonstrate awareness and solidarity. The Dutch obviously have their own problems with the RoP - oh, and so do the Spanish. And Tony Blair is a wet-knickered coward, as are all in his party. But not one Conservative MP brave enough to make a statement? The French, of course, fear their own Muslims - now referred to in the French media only as "youths". In Oz, they're referred to as "people of Middle Eastern and Mediterranean appearance". I still find it astounding that out of all the thousands of Congresspeople in the US, MPs in the Anglosphere and their European equivalents, not one has stood up and tabled a motion of support, for the record.

If they are this cowed, I'm not holding out much hope. I'll bet the incredible Aayan Hirsi Ali has made a comment somewhere. Outside Denmark and Norway, that woman is the only hero we've got.
(And Geert Wilders, who is also under police protection.)

Look, I feel strongly about this issue and the Danes shouldn't apologize, but I'm also angry enough about European self-righteousness when it comes to race relations and multi-culturalism that I can't say it makes me too unhappy to see the Euros get slapped for a change.

They've been telling themselves and the world for years that all cultures are the same and that harmonious tolerance is just a question of electing the right sort of enlightened democratic socialists to run the ship.

In short, they've earned it.

It's a little late for the Euros to stand up for liberty at this stage.

Hep hey!

A little hello from Denmark :)

I'm so overjoyed by the support we seem to be getting from this site, really nice!

But I have an update for you on the matter:

Jyllands Posten has appologised(and read this next bit carefully) that the drawings made muslims feel bad. NOTE! they have not appologised for printing the images, claiming their right to do so!

Anders Rasmussen, our prime minister, has said the same thing, and also stated, and I quote: "I will not appologise for what Jyllands Posten did, but I would never print pictures that can make a whole religion feel bad myself"
And again states that nothing has gone against the danish law, and he thereby declared his personal view, not a political view.

So all in all, there has been some form of appology, but not the kind that the muslim world wants(they stated that themselves), and I doubt they will get it.

On a side note.. they burned the danish flag somewhere in the middle east.. anyone noted the cross on it? That's christian.. burning a cross should require the muslim world to appologise to all the christians worldwide! (Tho I'm not a christian :P)

Again, I thank you for your support, luv ya! :D

So.

They backed down. Because they had absolutely no support from anyone in the civilised world.

An apology is an apology. Why should Mr Rasmussen apologise because other people reacted primitively to a situation? How is he or Denmark responsible for primitive responses? Why should he be sorry for them? "I'm sorry that my choice of make-up this morning made you feel bad."

If others with a voice had come in and supported Denmark this wouldn't have happened. Count one more victory for Muslim bullies. I can understand that it was too much for one tiny country to withstand all on its own without one word of support from the "civilised" world. How absolutely sickening.

This backdown is extremely dangerous.

Hi,

I am really astonished to see so many hate posts from the followeres of Jesus.Let us count the number of people killed by muslims and christians in the last one century to validate the fact which religion is of peace and what is hate.
Not a single post says we need to respect the sentiments of other human beings ....very intresting !!!

I think its worth to remember that Denmark haven`t backed down, the prime minister only expressed his own oppinion, when he said he would never publish pictures there would hurt alot of people around the world, but i think its more admorably that he once again stressed the issue that the freedom of speech cannot be questioned and that he never will state an formel political apology cause the printing of these pictures are not against the Danish law. I hope that the strong support shown in here and many places around the world from the man on the street will continue, so we once for all can display to the muslim community that the freedom of speech is never to be challenged. Lets hope that the World Trade Organisation will find the boycut of Danish goods an political decision, so that our fellew countries in the WTO can put pressure on the Arab countries. They have used some humorous drawings from an private owned Danish newspaper to start an war on the freedom of speech, but this is a war they never will win. Its noticable tha in the westbank they march under the parole "Crush the Danish heads" and have given all Scandinavian 3 days to leave the westbank or else they will start killing. It is the Arab world and only the Arab world there have escalated this issue to these proportions. All western countries must stand together to surpress these hostilities from the Arab world.
Once again i Hail you Scandinavia

Frankly, Kashif, that goes without saying in the civilised West. But the sentiments of kidnapping and beheading people, making women walk around in black tablecloths with a black pillowcase over their heads, stoning rape victims to death and hanging people for being born homosexual - those sentiments don't get a lot of respect, I admit.

Long may it remain thus.

Its also admorable to notice that in and poll made 2 days ago 82% of the Danes is against any form for apology to the muslim world.
Hail Scandinavia and the freedom of speech

The 12 drawings http://www.intercore.dk/TegnHvadDuVil/

Well, well. A ray of light.

From Dhimmi Watch: 'Hungary sides with Denmark. Says the Hungarian foreign minister: "To us, freedom of speech is a cornerstone of a functioning democracy". The arab reaction is "unfitting".'

And someone as high up as the foreign minister, yet. And the Anglsophere cannot produce a single MP or Congressperson to take the side of liberty. Good for the Hungarians!

"Not a single post says we need to respect the sentiments of other human beings ....very intresting !!!"

You get what you give, Kashif, or are Muslims so much less than human that they cannot be held to the same standard?

Stop colonizing other people's countries with breeding females and imams, stop fantasizing about taking other people's and calling it al-Andalus, stop your aggressions, and then people may start to listen when you complain about "Western aggression". If you don't, everyone will see you for the moral cripples you are.

What exactly is a "terrorist religion"? A religion that terrorists subscribe to? Most subscribe to Islam. OK, check. Is it a religion that advocates voilence against non-believers? Yes, Islam does that. Check.

Want to know more about Islam. Check out www.faithfreedom.org.

Finally, some claim that freedom of speech and expression does not extend to criticising religions and hurting religious peoples' sentiments. But then shouldn't religious freedom also be similarly circumscribed? Why is it that Islam can have the "religious freedom" to heap invective and vile epithets on idol-worshippers like me -- a peaceful person myself -- and vow to kill me (merely because I don't bow to their Allah) without any provocation? How about calling the Koran (Quran) for the piece of terrorist manual it is and prohibiting its publication?

The moment Denmark capitulates and apologizes officially, I will know that Europe can be written off: it has lost to the terrorist dogma called Islam.

Today a French newspaper reprinted the Muhammad drawings.

Thanks France –remember NOT to apologise!

Now we just need countries like England, US and Germany.

I would love to see the Middle East make sanctions against Europe and the US; the westerns savings on foreign aid alone will surly cover any lost profit, so please go ahead!

Even better.

Not only France, but Germany, Italy, Holland, Spain and Iceland decided to print the pictures.

I am really looking forward to se the reactions from the Middle East, what will they do now? Ban Europe!

The Daned - Where did you read this fabulous news?

And how shameful that Iceland and Spain are in, and Britain is cowering in the cold. This is because of Tony Blair's new religious hate law. Why don't they just print anyway and dare him to act? He'a coward. He won't.

The French enter the debate:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4669360.stm

The French news paper (France Soir) http://francesoir.quotidiano.net/#
(Picture of the printed edition http://www.jp.dk/indland/artikel:aiid=3530562:fid=11146:img=0/)

The German news paper (Die Welt) http://www.welt.de/
(Picture of the printed edition http://www.jp.dk/indland/artikel:aiid=3530562:fid=11146:img=2/)
Another German newspaper http://www.berlinonline.de/berliner-zeitung/tagesthema/522365.html (the pictures was printed in the paper edition)

DV Icelandic newspaper: http://www.visir.is/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060130/SKODANIR0201/60130076/1080

Apparently the Mexican news paper http://www.cronica.com.mx/ has also printed the pictures, but I cant find the info on the website.

Two new Norwegian newspapers also decided to print the pictures (http://www.Aftenposten.no and http://www.Dagbladet.no)

I cant find the Spanish and Italian sites –sorry :-/

Iceland, France, Germany, Holland, Spain, Italy, Mexico, Norway ... have all published at least one or two of the offending cartoons to show solidarity with the brave Danish.

And who is missing from this free-speechfest?

Not one name from the Anglosphere. Nary a one. For shame. For shame.

Look at this picture, for local newspapers.

http://pics.jp.metropol.dk/159/159612/159612_large.jpg

It is freedom isn`t it! you do what you want we do our part,as you have the right to post what you want we have the right to choose which "butter" is better for us !

Since September 30, the debate in Denmark over 12 published drawings of the Prophet Mohammad has yet to abate. These caricatures, as they are better described, have caused anger among Muslims and non-Muslims both inside Denmark and outside, where the news has slowly spread.
The project behind the drawings was, ostensibly, inspired by the intimidation some artists felt vis-a-vis Islam, and the feeling that, as a result, freedom of expression was under threat. In the subsequent controversy, many opinion-shapers have spoken of their bemusement over the reaction of Muslims and why they should be so sensitive over something that poked fun at religious figures. There was even not-so-hidden wonderment that Muslims didn't find the derision and laughter directed at their religion somehow edifying.
But long before these drawings came into the public domain, there was widespread apprehension among Danish Muslims over the way they and their religious affiliation were presented in the media. The image projected in the Danish media of Islam has been one of a faith that did not undergo a reformation and renaissance similar to Christianity, and is thus stuck in the middle ages. The drawings are simply a culmination of several years of media persecution of the Muslim minority in Denmark.
Even worse is the role elected politicians have played in stoking this fire. It is not unusual for certain politicians to make ill-willed and mistaken, but also common, reference that Muslims are immigrants, and immigrants are badly integrated and therefore the root of all evil in Danish society.
Beyond the prejudice against immigrants in general, this ignores the fact that most Muslims in Denmark have been there for 30-40 years, and many were born there. But if that is pointed out, they are simply called second- or third-generation immigrants. Even ethnic Danish Muslim converts are described by the derogatory "ersatz-immigrants;" one politician has gone so far as to compare these converts to Nazis, and, in all seriousness, advocate that they be placed under surveillance as they constitute a threat to society. A politician from the same party described Muslims as a spreading cancer, while others have suggested criminals of non-Danish ethnic background should be interne or exiled with their closest family.
The fact elected politicians can make such statements and at the same time claim to be standard bearers for democracy, freedom of expression and human rights is a serious indictment of the degeneration of public morals in Denmark.
Just as in any other community, Danish Muslims have their share of bad apples. But only for the Muslim community is it seen fit to mention a religious affiliation when someone is suspected or convicted of any criminal or unseemly behavior. This amounts to blaming the community as a whole and demonizing Islam. The stigmatization and general lack of acceptance of Muslims in Denmark as equals has, as a consequence, led especially members of the younger generation to create an identity in opposition to their surroundings.
The persecution of Muslims in public forums serves only to dig trenches in society and lessens the chance of conducting any constructive dialogue. I predict that Danish Muslims will eventually emigrate to other European countries where attitudes are less harsh - some well-educated members of the community have already left and others are ready to follow if presented with the opportunity. Of course, those who leave will be those with the qualifications and necessary economic ballast. Denmark will be left with those from the lower socio-economic strata. That, in turn, will reinforce the perception of Muslims as simply constituting a drain on the welfare system.
Just as it is now so in the future our responsibility is to make this multi-ethnic society function. In this context, a lack of sensitivity in the way that we Danes express ourselves in public constitutes a threat to peaceful coexistence. I hope that in the future we will be able to frame our public debate on this issue in a less divisive manner to avoid further polarization. The right of freedom of expression comes with a burden of responsibility.

Since September 30, the debate in Denmark over 12 published drawings of the Prophet Mohammad has yet to abate. These caricatures, as they are better described, have caused anger among Muslims and non-Muslims both inside Denmark and outside, where the news has slowly spread.
The project behind the drawings was, ostensibly, inspired by the intimidation some artists felt vis-a-vis Islam, and the feeling that, as a result, freedom of expression was under threat. In the subsequent controversy, many opinion-shapers have spoken of their bemusement over the reaction of Muslims and why they should be so sensitive over something that poked fun at religious figures. There was even not-so-hidden wonderment that Muslims didn't find the derision and laughter directed at their religion somehow edifying.
But long before these drawings came into the public domain, there was widespread apprehension among Danish Muslims over the way they and their religious affiliation were presented in the media. The image projected in the Danish media of Islam has been one of a faith that did not undergo a reformation and renaissance similar to Christianity, and is thus stuck in the middle ages. The drawings are simply a culmination of several years of media persecution of the Muslim minority in Denmark.
Even worse is the role elected politicians have played in stoking this fire. It is not unusual for certain politicians to make ill-willed and mistaken, but also common, reference that Muslims are immigrants, and immigrants are badly integrated and therefore the root of all evil in Danish society.
Beyond the prejudice against immigrants in general, this ignores the fact that most Muslims in Denmark have been there for 30-40 years, and many were born there. But if that is pointed out, they are simply called second- or third-generation immigrants. Even ethnic Danish Muslim converts are described by the derogatory "ersatz-immigrants;" one politician has gone so far as to compare these converts to Nazis, and, in all seriousness, advocate that they be placed under surveillance as they constitute a threat to society. A politician from the same party described Muslims as a spreading cancer, while others have suggested criminals of non-Danish ethnic background should be interne or exiled with their closest family.
The fact elected politicians can make such statements and at the same time claim to be standard bearers for democracy, freedom of expression and human rights is a serious indictment of the degeneration of public morals in Denmark.
Just as in any other community, Danish Muslims have their share of bad apples. But only for the Muslim community is it seen fit to mention a religious affiliation when someone is suspected or convicted of any criminal or unseemly behavior. This amounts to blaming the community as a whole and demonizing Islam. The stigmatization and general lack of acceptance of Muslims in Denmark as equals has, as a consequence, led especially members of the younger generation to create an identity in opposition to their surroundings.
The persecution of Muslims in public forums serves only to dig trenches in society and lessens the chance of conducting any constructive dialogue. I predict that Danish Muslims will eventually emigrate to other European countries where attitudes are less harsh - some well-educated members of the community have already left and others are ready to follow if presented with the opportunity. Of course, those who leave will be those with the qualifications and necessary economic ballast. Denmark will be left with those from the lower socio-economic strata. That, in turn, will reinforce the perception of Muslims as simply constituting a drain on the welfare system.
Just as it is now so in the future our responsibility is to make this multi-ethnic society function. In this context, a lack of sensitivity in the way that we Danes express ourselves in public constitutes a threat to peaceful coexistence. I hope that in the future we will be able to frame our public debate on this issue in a less divisive manner to avoid further polarization. The right of freedom of expression comes with a burden of responsibility.

Allah's Apostle said:
"I have been made victorious with terror" Bukhari 4:52:220

Visit www.faithfreedom.org

About
Faith Freedom International
www.faithfreedom.org

Islamic terrorism is inspired by Islamic teachings. We can never get rid of Islamic terrorism unless we defeat the ideology behind it and that is Islam itself. Islam induces hate backed by lies. Muhammad was a terrorist by his own admission. All Muslims, to the extent that they follow him, are terrorists. Those Muslims who are not terrorists are ignorant of Islam and are not good Muslims. Fortunately they are the majority. We need to rescue them. If you are a good human being, you are not a Muslim. Read this site and if you can't prove me wrong, which you certainly can't, leave this deceitful cult of hate and terror and join mankind. Don't be part of the Umma. Umma is fascism. It is divisive. It induces the hatred of others. Be part of humanity instead. Your ignorance is not an excuse. Pull your head out of the sand and face the truth, like we did.

Faith Freedom International is a grassroots worldwide movement of ex-Muslims and all those who are concerned about the rise of the Islamic threat. We want to bring humanity together, not by introducing yet another doctrine, which always ends up dividing mankind more, but by eliminating the doctrines that divide us. We want to abolish this evil 'Muslim vs. Kafir" dichotomy. Mankind is one family. Don't let narcissist men like Hitler and Muhammad sunder us with their big lies. Don't become the victim of the "divide and rule" policy of a psychopath.

Faith Freedom stands for freedom of faith. We are against Hate, not Faith. We revere human rights not human beliefs. We endeavor to be factually correct, not politically correct.

Do your part! Let this message out. Let us eradicate Islam and bring mankind together - the way God intended. Islam is the cancer of humanity. We can get rid of it. There is nothing we humans can't do. Mountains move aside to make way for those who are determined.

You all unbelievers, this is what the Religion of Peace has in store for you.

Terror

3:151
We will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve, because they set up with Allah that for which He has sent down no authority, and their abode is the fire, and evil is the abode of the unjust.

8:60
And prepare against them what force you can and horses tied at the frontier, to terrorize thereby the enemy of Allah...

8:12
I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them.

Moreover Allah says of those who reject him. Because, Allah has already sentenced them to death.

Unbelievers

2:191, And slay them wherever ye catch them

2:193, And fight them on until there is no more Tumult or oppression

2:216, Fighting is prescribed for you, and ye dislike it. But it is possible that ye dislike a thing which is good for you

3:28, Let not the believers Take for friends or helpers Unbelievers rather than believers: if any do that, in nothing will there be help from Allah

Visit www.faithfreedom.org

Very strange Hitler and Muhammad what a relationship ..hmmm..Am smelling something from Idol worshipper! You are no such worshipper, but you are a war shipper.
And imagine from which roots you are.

What about The Da Vinci Code...hmmmmm

Rashid - yes, of course you can decide which butter is best for you. And we will decide what is best for democracy and free speech in the West. You might want to tell your seething compadres having busy meetings all over the world that not only is freedom of the press non-negotiable, but that heads of government in the West have absolutely no power over newspaper editors to tell them what they may print. This information would have saved all those silly ambassadors making fools of themselves trying to meet the prime minister under the somedwhat primitive impression that he could give orders to the press.

Salim says: "The right of freedom of expression comes with a burden of responsibility." That is correct. People living in a democracy have the responsibilty of allowing others to express ideas that may be offensive to them. You're living in an advanced, secular society that allows you to practice your religion (unlike Saudi Arabia) but does not allow you to try to force religion on others. Mohammed doesn't mean a thing to people in Europe and the cartoons weren't aimed at you. They were aimed at the Danish reader. If you can't handle democracy and secularism, you know where the airport is and you know where the theocracies are.

Well, thanks for the support on this page. Today a number of European Newspapers in Germany, Netherlands, France and Spain have reprintet the famous drawings from "Jyllandsposten". Oddly no English or American paper has done the same, to my knowledge.

It's extremely important to keep a steady hand in this matter, there can be no compromise in the freedom of speech. However it is quite a chalenge for a small country like Denmark suddenly to be the object of the anger of 1 bill. muslims. Fortunately Mr. Rasmussen is not a person to flee his ideals when under presure. That he has shown as one of the strongest supporters of the campaigns for democracy in Afghanistan and Iraq, where he has time and time again stressed, that Danish troops will stay for as long as needed and as long as the local governmments wish us to stay. And believe me, that is nor necesserely a popular stand anywhere in Europe, including Denmark, where a chorus of pseudo humanistic leftwingers are screaming of murder and torture of inocent Iraqi civilians. Funny enough these people are the same as 20 years ago were hailing the wonders of the soviet Sphere.

I hope, that this matter can be dealt with through dialogue but I must say that I'm quite negative about the chance of getting into a civilized dialogue with the majority of the islamic world because of the facts that: not that many of the followers of Muhammad are very civilized, and if you are a muslim, you have to be a fanatic. This religion leaves no ground for compromises, you have to accept the whole packet, the (un)holy book just as it is, word by word.

If anybody should feel like supporting Danish exports, we would take it as a warm support of our common democratic values. Here is a list of Danish companies and products that we export a lot of:

Pork, pork, pork and...some more pork, veal, Lurpak butter, Carlsberg/Tuborg/Faxe/Ceres beers, Wind mills from Vestas (you never know when they'll come in handy if this conflict develops), butter cookies, Bang & Olufsen (ask Your banker first!), Lego toys, Scandinavian Airline System (SAS), cheese (ec. Danish Blue or Hawarti), Anthon Berg fine chocolads,Maersk- Sealand container shipping (if you need to move a few things), Danish furnitures (design furnitures). If You can not find any of these products, You can just forward me the money, and I will be happy to spend them for you! LoL

(By the way, my name is a quote from a danish soccer song, it seems to fit the situation no matter how You look at it)

The Managing Editor of France Soir has been fired.

Verity, the firing of the ME of France Soir is woefully sad. If Europeans lack backbone, there is little hope for Europe.

Verity.. My country is UAE and am from Dubai, where the majority living here are expatriates, and all of them lives in such peace may be in Europe dream of. my mosques next to the Church and in its turn next to Hindu Temple.
No problems happened and still each community respect others, locals have no such racism and that not because of traditional way of behavior but that is the correct Islam teaching.
I wonder if what you said about those cartoons are just a try out for democracy in Denmark, I would see some of cartoons related to Jewish religion how it would be seen!!!
I can not say Christian religion because I know there are a few flowers in Europe especially younger ones, and I think Muslims have more respect for Christian religion than Christian them selves.
Rashid

Rashid,

Yeah - if one wants to behold a society where peace and justice rules, the UAE naturally comes to mind. Tell me that there is a beeline of educated luminaries sick of petty strife who want to immigrate to the UAE. Now would you care to post the constitution of the UAE on this site?

I completely grant you the varying standards you've identified. If there were caricatures with an anti-semitic slant, the Jewish community would have created a ruckus. However, one can trivially understand the difference between the two responses. Jewish people were eliminated in the most horrendous manner right in Europe, just 60 years ago. They are naturally sensitive to the discrimination after they slowly rebuilt. Most of the non-Jewish world (save the pan-Islamic ummah) recognizes this and somewhat empathizes with them. Among the Jewish community, you do have notable voices of dissent who never fail to point out over reaction. Irrespective, you would never have a religious edict being issued. We all know its a matter of days before some lunatic issues a fatwa against the Danish editors.

Also, you add: "Muslims have more respect for Christian religion than Christian them selves". Perhaps. But what do you opine of Muslim respect for the over 1 billion idol-worshipping Hindus? The mountains in Afghanistan are referred to as "Hindu Kush" - 'death to Hindus' even today.

It is well worth your time reading this outstanding WSJ op. ed. that pre-dated the Danish episode.

http://www.opinionjournal.com/extra/?id=110007760

Rashid - In the face of daily threats to Jews from the religion of peace, most, but now all, of them emanating from the Middle East - although some from the mad mullahs in Britain, the Jews by and large shrug. They are hurt. If I were Jewish I would feel threatened and angry. But they don't go on rampages. They don't threaten to murder innocent people.

Tony Blair ran a revoltingly anti-Jewish election campaign last time round. His Conservative opponent, Michael Howard, is Jewish and his parents were refugees to Britain. Blair played up Mr Howard's Judaism, trying to frighten the electorate. Most people who picked up on the sly allusions were absolutely revolted. A few Jews wrote rational, but angry, letters to the correspondence columns of the newspapers. End of story. No one kidnapped anyone. No one videoed themselves cutting a victim's head off.

The "Jewish community" are rational, educated, civilised people. They do not "create a ruckus". Letters to the editor are as ruckus-like as British Jews get.

You say you would like to see some cartoons related to the Jewish religion. Why? Have the Jews tried to censor the press? Do the Jews try to muffle opinions which oppose their own? I agree that the UAE is a haven of religious moderation and civilised behaviour, but your statement that you would like to see cartoons of Jewish people tells me that you, like all your co-religionists, just don't get it.

Because Islam and its adherents try to stifle any criticism whatsoever of their religion or Mohammad, we in the advanced West find that intolerable. Judaism doesn't try to stifle any opinion whatsoever. For them, anything goes. So why would a newspaper editor be motivated to draw a line in the sand about Judaism.

I find a lot of things personally offensive. Example: the judicial murder of a 16-year old. Read this and weep:

http://www.iranfocus.com/modules/news/article.php?storyid=137
QUOTE:
Neka (northern Iran), Aug 31 – The orphaned 16-year-old girl hanged in front of residents in this town close to the Caspian Sea on August 15 suffered years of brutal violence, exploitation and torture in the hands of relatives, local officials and plain strangers, and in a country where girls are the most vulnerable members of society, she had no one to go to for help...
ENDQUOTE

Where is the anger and the outrage when innocents are murdered by the mullahs? Does the Islamic world have a conscience? If it does, it keeps it pretty closeted. Fuck the bastards.

"Boycott the Danes because a Danish newspaper has insulted Muslims by printing cartoons."

Do the Muslims see anything wrong in dumping on the entire Danish nation for the actions (offensive or not) of a bunch of people working for a newspaper? How do they feel when the non-Muslim world dumps on all Muslims for the uncountable number of murders and terrorists acts conducted by Muslims?

Fuck, the Muslims give an entirely new meaning to the word "hypocrisy."

Verity & Prohias

“Tell me that there is a beeline of educated luminaries sick of petty strife who “wants” to immigrate to the UAE”.
I will 80% of properties in Dubai bought by Europeans, that is for themselves, to live in peace and found that all the news and media stories been issued by Europeans media is away from truth, no wonders!
They are living in peace and grow their children in save community, without worrying about violence or drugs.

But, I want to ask you why a news paper should deal with such subject not related to their community if it is as others said it’s for democracy try out!
Isn’t it strange? We have a say: if you have no stomachache why should you take medicine!
The Jewish issue is to bull your opinion in one of the most subject which is prohibited to be touched in the media in Europe, and most of the Europe constitutions accommodate to deal with such issue.
I do not have hate against Jewish at the end of the day they are my cousins, off course those of Middle Eastern origin and those whom run away from west European countries, where been suffers from your racism, and the start was exactly as now , hate against Muslims.
But not those whom brought just to fill the Palestinians countries and through them outside their origin country, I must say one thing to clear there is a big difference between Jewish and Zionism.
Saying that IMO the problem is not the democracy, if some one wants to try out that they are many other ways to do.
It just the hate in some of the communities, and think they are better than others
Where the entire world is going for globalization, it seems the Middle Ages still exists in some heads and can not get it out from it.
As I am talking with knowledge of Europe and my country, I been in most of them, I like you to try and come to see how we live with others in complete respect may be you get a good example for your community, why not.
Rashid

“ Fuck, the Muslims give an entirely new meaning to the word "hypocrisy."”
This is your demo –crazy, hate hate hate, you never learn from your mistakes.
Why wants the others,, buy your product it might be crazy cows ,like you.
I was not with boycott but now seeing “Idolworshipper” words, I certainly will.

Rashid you have absolutely NO clue what you are talking about, when referring to co existing with Muslims in Europe.

I can only speak for Denmark; where most of our problems are DIRECTLY coursed by Muslims: Muslims represents about 5% (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4385768.stm) of the entire Danish population, but they represent 20% of the entire unemployed workforce (http://www.inm.dk/publikationer/integration2001/kap04.htm). Furthermore; in year 2000 the Muslim males committed 38 pct. more crimes then the average Dane (http://www.dst.dk/OmDS/BagTal/Arkiv/14-05-2002-Indvandrere_kriminalitet.aspx).

SO PLEASE don’t tell us about co-existing in harmony. We have tried, and are doing so with Hindus, Buddhists, Jews, etc. But it seems Muslims only what to exploit freedom, destroy democratic, and dictate the mind of the “infidels”.

The cartoons were printed to see the reaction, how much censorship still exists in the Muslim community, and properly to see if there has been any development sins the Salmon Rushdie scandal (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salman_Rushdie). To my big surprise NOTHING has changed, even the Muslims living in Denmark act like they just crawled out of a cave, and living in the dark ages.

To burn and spit on western flags, threaten people, because of pathetic comics?…. I hope this is a wakeup call for ALL western countries (most important EU), to stop ALL Muslim immigration, stop ALL negotiations with Turkey about expanding EU and to stop ALL financial aid for the Muslim countries.

salim

QUOTE:
.., while others have suggested criminals of non-Danish ethnic background should be interne or exiled with their closest family.
ENDQUOTE:

I can sure understand why when you see how the Muslims react. On of the Muslim leaders in Denmark tells the Danish press that he hops the hatred against Denmark will stop, and 2 hours later he talks to Aljazira he tells the Muslim community to continue the battle? .. The Muslims are not to be trusted- not even the so called 2. Generation.

QUOTE:
…But only for the Muslim community is it seen fit to mention a religious affiliation when someone is suspected or convicted of any criminal or unseemly behavior.
ENDQUOTE:

If you look at the statistics, you will properly know why –the Muslims IS the largest problem I Denmark, regarding criminal activity, gangs, violence, illegal workers etc. I’m sure if the Chinese community behaved in the same manner, they would feel the same pressure.

The Dane
I know what is going on very well, my dear
If you think it is a problem of a bunch of Muslims, as some educated person mentioned before, why call them Muslims in first place, they are coming from different countries you should relate them to their origin countries,
Why Muslims and Danish, why you do not call Danish “Christian” !
Then I think if the problem is a community and illegal you have the right to send them back home, you do not have the right to disrespect the whole Muslims in the world because of a small group “non Danish” ethnic!
It is first and last if you like it or not it is racism which is a traditional behavior.
And it is not only in Denmark, it is almost everywhere in Europe.
It is more Parties program and politics rather than religion.
The Dane
“We have tried, and are doing so with Hindus, Buddhists, Jews, etc. But it seems Muslims only what to exploit freedom, destroy democratic, and dictate the mind of the “infidels”.” stop ALL negotiations with Turkey about expanding EU and to stop ALL financial aid for the Muslim countries.”

Those words proof that only racisms, otherwise the Muslims represent 5% is nothing within the Danish majority.
If you think we are as local represents 10% of the population, and we have more problems than you are from non educated labors and east Europe prostitution but that is not our concern, it is part of who maintain orders.
This is every community has, should we blame Christianity! NO
Salim

Salim:

1. If you're Danish, why don't you have a Danish name?

2. I thought you people were citizens of the Nation of Islam.

Salim, not to put too fine a point on it, but you are a clueless retard. Look up the meaning of the word "hypocrisy" in the dictionary. You will see that it means acting in one way and talk in an entirely different way.

Quote:
Why Muslims and Danish, why you do not call Danish “Christian” !
End quote

I’m not a Christian! I’m Danish first, and a member of the free world second.

Quote:
a problem of a bunch of Muslims, as some educated person mentioned before, why call them Muslims in first place, they are coming from different countries you should relate them to their origin countries,
End quote

Many Muslims don’t consider themselves Danish, Swedish, English, America etc.; they consider themselves Muslims before anything, they respect Muslim law before western (woman’s rights etc.), so why should I call them by country?

I don’t care if you’re black, brown, white, or green, but I mind if you’re a Muslim, because I believe Muslims represents a serious danger to all NON Muslims and the basic rules of the free world.

Quote:
Those words proof that only racisms, otherwise the Muslims represent 5% is nothing within the Danish majority.
If you think we are as local represents 10% of the population, and we have more problems than you are from non educated labors and east Europe prostitution but that is not our concern, it is part of who maintain orders.
End Quote:

You can’t compare Muslims to eastern Europeans? First of all they are a member of EU –so they are actually welcome, second east Europeans leave when the job is done, third they respect the basic rules of the western world, and consider themselves Europeans.

Quote:
This is every community has, should we blame Christianity! NO
End Quote:

You consider most Europeans and Americans Christians (Or not)?, so don’t you?

Congratulations the Anglosphere has joined the fight

BBC to broadcast controversial cartoons
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/worldnews.html?in_article_id=375956&in_page_id=1811&ito=1490

It will be a cold day in Hell when the BBC stands up for freedom of speech against Muslims; that broadcast will not show the cartoons, it will only describe them and possibly show a fuzzy shot of one of the "offending" newspapers. Don't raise you hopes, the leftist media are mostly on the side of the Muslims. It will take a determined politician to win this, and I fear it will get worse before it gets before. Muslims just do not, at all, understand the concepts of free speech and separation of church and state. That is why so many of them are bleating "You wouldn't allow disrespectful images of Christ!" (we do) and "The government should punish the newspapers" (like they do in Arab despotisms). No clue whatsoever. It is a cultural divide that can only be bridged by beating the lessons of freedom into the Arabs, like the Anglosphere did to the Germans and Japanese. And that war is still a decade or two away.

Am not a Danish and I DO NOT want live in a country where there is no respect am living happy where I am, but why I should change my name is that the FREEDOM which you are debating for, very strange !!!! There is no nation related to religion except Israel, which created by European and adopted by the American put in Palestine and thrown the real population, but I like to all of different opinion to go back to history most of the world problems created by western and still.
Ok let put it in halt ,,you want your way of free speech ,why then cry for the boycott, others have free to select isn’t it !

Salim: Are you reading the posts?

I don’t give a rat’s ass about the boycotts – by all means let all Muslims boycott the entire western world!

What I DO care about is the total intolerants and lag of respect for important principles as free speech, flag burning, death threats (suicide bombs), beating of innocent Scandinavians, the shut down of the European Union's office in Gaza, armed fights, etc.

If that is what you are defending, then you are a blind and unintelligent moron –with nothing to offer the west!

The Dane
Who said I can offer something to the west, you are so simple in your mind, do you think I can offer any! But in the same time I like your offers, I can see it every day in Iraq.
Ha, am so sorry you are talking about principle of speech my apologies to you, now I did read your note “What I DO care about is the total intolerants and lag of respect for important principles as free speech”
I though you in the west more sensible to freedom of speech. What you did when you heard that the western coalition wanted to attack and bomb the freedom speech of al Jazira TV. Come and tell me or because al Jasira is not in the western territory and telling the truth which you guys do not want to hear, and how many journalist been killed in purpose without notice, did your free media fight “speech” in favor of them, is this what you call freedom ,I think it is only a chosen freedom .
I do not want to tell you “blind white skin” because we know how we talk and respect others opinion not like you.

Salim :

What is it that you want, An apology? .. Because this has already been given by the newspaper!

The Dane,
I do not care about apology..I entered in this discussion to see what you guys have in your mind about the problems of the world, including that of Denmark issue.
Most of you are lack of information or you do it in purpose, let’s see what you you The Dane, wrote on January 30, 2006 01:33 PM
“It’s much more then just a ban on Danish exports:
The Muslims are burning Danish and Norwegian flags.
Danish people have been beaten in Mekka (Saudi-Arabia).
Armed Muslims have attacked/ and occupied an EU office in Gaza, demanding an official apology form Denmark.
The Danish Red Cross has been evacuated from the Middle East because of threats.
The Mujahideen has claimed holy war on all Danish- and Norwegian targets.
And so on… ‘
End
Note: Danish people have been beaten in Mekka…
BIG LIE… I do not know from where you got this news, is it from FOX NEWS!
All the world knows that no such ,non Muslim can get in that city ,how you event it!
Is part of your freedom of manipulation?
God bless you all.
With this I have to leave you guys, I hope one day we can live in peace all of us not only white skin.
Thanks

Salim,

You are partly right, no non muslim can get into Mekka...and if he tried he would receive more than a beating!

Nevertheless the story of the beaten Danes is true, it was workers fra from the Dairy firm ARLA. They were not seriously harmed, but naturally more than chocked. it happend i SaudiArabia, I just don't recall the city.

I would hope, that there would be more understanding between muslims and the West, I just don't believe there will be. The arab mobs are far to uneducated and they follow a medieval culture (not only religion). They have twisted feelings about "honor", and share the believe, that all their misfortune comes from western countries, Christians and Jews who have a secret pledge to keep down all muslims.

Ethymologically, the word "islam" means "submission". The word "freedom" has no meaning to a culture that was built on "submission". But it is a concept ideal for dictators to keep their people down in submission. It is natural for them to try to rob us of our freedom and submit us to the dicdatorship of islam. Last century we had to fight 2 totalitarian systems, this century we are up against another. I hope we will have as much courrage as did our parents.

Dear John Kactuz
problem between adherents of different religions is an ever-lasting issue. Anyone can make a mistake a Muslim, a Christian or anyone else. And this is being narrow-minded to simply relate that to the religion one has.

I am a Christian. But I think you didn’t tell the truth about Islam traditions. (That Mohammad murdered, took slaves, tortured and even beat his favorite wife.)
I think he was a very nice man. He was the first man to kiss his daughter’s hand in the past Saudi Arabia or the only one who raised women’s value in a country that men killed their own daughter. (You have to study more about the past Saudi Arabia and about how savage they had been. so this prophet is respectable because he arose in such an environment.)

I think the drawings are offensive and who ever had anything to do with them owe muslims at least an apology!! if Jesus means nothing to you it's your problem.. but our prophrt amd all prophrts ( including Jesus) means every thing to us..

rand - You are free to find the drawings offensive. And you are free to say so. What you are not free to do is threaten the artists or the publisher or the Danish people or Danish property - as in embassies and consulates.

The cartoons were published in Denmark, an advanced secular Western democracy where freedom of expression is enshrined in the constitution. You are free to apply sharia law in your own countries. But you must understand that the most advanced countries in the world, and the freest, have nothing to do with Islam and find its laws distasteful. That said, we respect that in your own countries, you have an absolute right to enforce your own laws.

You live in a world where the most powerful and richest countries are all secular democracies. Get over it.

Today! Iran answers back with a holocaust drawing contest, to test free speech? They are welcome, because of free speech and all, but Iran hasn’t got free speech and free press –so it’s the most childish and stupid defence they could ever come up with.

BUT! We must consider the actions as an acceptance of free speech, so at least no one will ever have apologise or think twice before printing Muhammad again.

Wow, some of the comments are really disgusting. I think there is a difference between freedom of speech and respect for other peoples faiths, and it should be exercised with moderation and consideration for other peoples faiths. And i wouldn't worry too much about the middle east...after all, all that oil and minerals...which is sadly lacking in the west is really not a problem. Nor the affect of millions and billions of muslims avoiding danish goods, i mean the economy can handle it right? Xenophobia has gone too far, grow up and get educated, you make people feel sick when you make such narrow minded and racist comments. Have proper argument with an educated adult!

By the way...you will find that most of the information printed above about the islamic faith is wrong. Try getting out 'Islam for dummies' maybe then you may understand other faiths. So good to know that 'Christians' are so well informed (rolling my eyes) about the islamic faith and are able to inform their fellow man of (gasp!!) 'True facts' i say this with a laugh because i am a muslim. I'm a female, educated and able to express my own mind. Please remember there is a difference between religion and culture.My religion, of islam which i wholeheartedly and without an ounce of disgust feel love for is portrayed so wrongly, and makes me question where you people get your information, i mean what a laugh. I probably understand judaism and christianity more than those who belong to those groups. I'm proud of my faith and the wonderful values it has given me, and i shall not be ashamed to say so. Get your information right, i am not repressed either (those who may be concerned that as woman i maybe dying to escape my faith...laugh!!!)

Take care prejudiced people, i hope you have fun discusses 'myths' and not facts amongst yourselves. I have a friends party to go...so you have fun! xxxx

jenna - I hope you enjoyed the mint tea at your friend's party.

You write: "I think there is a difference between freedom of speech and respect for other peoples faiths, and it should be exercised with moderation and consideration for other peoples faiths."

Yes, your are right: there is a difference between the two. Freedom of speech is absolute and cannot be abridged. Freedom of speech includes the freedom to offend, intentionally or unintentionally. Freedom of the press comes under freedom of speech. It is the birthright of everyone born in a democracy. It's absolute.

"Respect for other peoples'faiths" on the other hand is only accorded willingly. One cannot legislate respect. It must be earned. Most people in the world do respect Judaism, Christianity, Hinduism, Buddhism, Sikhism. In fact, I think many of us are fascinated by aspects of one another's religions. Yet there is a universal dislike of Islam. No one has a good word to say for it. I wonder why.

I am puzzled about why you think the West does not have oil. Have you heard of Texas and Oklahoma? There's even more up in Alaska! And offshore California. Have you heard of Mexico? It's awash in oil. Have you heard of Venezuela? They have vast oil reserves. Have you heard of Great Britain and Norway? Yes, oil. Russia? Check.

Certainly, we buy a lot of Saudi oil because extraction there is cheap. But the West is endlessly inventive - unlike Islam, which has never invented a single thing in 1,400 years - and alternative sources are being developed even as I write. When we have these up and running, we'll pack up in the Middle East.

Yes, the Danish economy is strong enough to withstand a boycott of one or two companies' products in the Middle East. We may cut our generous funding to your Palestinian brothers and sisters, though.

You claim to be educated, Jenna. Could you explain why you think Islam is a race?

What ever it is done is wrong as every religion including CHRISTIANITY AND ISLAM say that disgracing other religions is not allowed I my self have read BIBLE AND QURAN BUT I AM A MUSLIM MASHALLAH ALHAMDULILLAH and I beleive this is wrong. Muslims should not react like this destroying own Property but i Say that all countries should stop import from DENMARK especially DUBAI should do this as DUBAI is the main Market

Taha bin Ubaid - You are correct. Muslims should not have reacted to a Danish newspaper publishing an article for people living in Denmark discussing self-censorship. The reaction was infantile and arrogant. What Danish newspapers publish is not your business.

I personally have made an effort over the last two weeks to buy Danish where possible. I usually buy Fern butter from New Zealand, but I have switched to LurPak. I am also buying Danish blue cheese instead of French. And I am buying Carlsberg beer.

Long Live Anders Rasmussen and the Danish Constitution!

God Save Queen Margrethe
yeah some body said this! if POP JOHN PAUL AND QUEEN MARGRETHE are shown naked and POP rapping her in a cartoon howzzat! and the danish prime minister he thrown shit of all MUSLIMS of the world on his head and danish heads... thats all .....RESPECT OTHERS TO BE RESPECTED BASIC SAYING IN BIBLE .. I BELIVE IN BIBLE AND DUNN MAKE THIS WORLD A PLACE LIKE HELL IN THE NAME OF FREEDOM OF SPEECH....THE PERSON OF WHOM THE CARTOONS ARE MADE IS ABOVE ALL SKIES AND HIS PLACE NO BODY CAN TELL IS ABOVE EVEN JESUS CHIRST...SO THIS IS NOT FREEDOM OF SPEECH THIS IS THE FIRST STEP TO DESTRUCTION OF DENMARK AND WHOLE MANKIND LAST WORDS RESPECT TO BE RESPECTED AND JUST MAKE CARTOONS OF USAMA TALIBAN BUSH HOWARD WHO EVER IS IN THIS WORLD TRYING TO DESTROY THE PEACE AND LOVE AMONG ALL HUMANS....SHIT BULL SHIT WITH DANISH COMMENTS I HATE DENMARK WHAT THEY HAVE DONE ITS THE WORST PLACE TO LIVE ON EATRH...AND IF U TRY TO SPLIT TOWARDS SKY ITS GONNA COME ON UR OWN FACE SO DAMN CARE BUT I AM HAPPY IN THE NAME OF FREEDOM WHAT THEY HAVE DONE ATLEAST 1.3 BILLION PEOPLE ON EATRH HAVE HATE THEM AND MORE THAN THAT SO MANY PEACE LOVER CHIRISTIANS HAVE ALOS CONDEMN THAT .....DENMARK IS THE PLACE WHERE THERE IS NO RESPECT FOR EACH OTHER AND ANY OTHER COUNTRY AND RELIGION ITS THE PLACE WORST THAN HELL...THATS IT I REQUEST ALL MUSLIMS AND PEACE LOVING CHIRISTIANS WHO ARE AGAIST JUST LEAVE DENMARK THAT IS NOT THE PLACE TO LIVE .....

I believe Denmark may the finest, freest country to live in the world. I am full of admiration for them.

Religious bigotry has no place in an advanced, enlightened Western society. If you cannot get your head round this, there are a couple of dozen theocratic hell holes you could move to. You people seem to have a problem adjusting to freedom.

think about the day of judgment.....

You people have two faces you should be a shame of.
This is the freedom of speech. Go ahead and read it.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4733820.stm
He is not a Muslim though.
Why there is a low for something and for others NO.!!!!!!!!!!
Sam

Freedom of speech.. Freedom of opinion.. Freedom of though is guaranteed in Europe.
BUY BOOK NOW!
Holocaust Denier Irving Is Jailed
Publishers of works of Real History
by David Irving and other authors

Those countries changed their laws to accommodate against holocaust denial.
You know why, because those people are strong enough (money wise) and controlling the western media and the mind of the political governors.
Belgium
Czech Republic
France
Germany
Israel
Lithuania
Poland
Romania
Slovakia
Switzerland

Wonderful freedom you have.. The time will come and you people should ask them if you can sleep with your wives!

Irving was jailed in Austria. Duh. That is a separate country from Denmark. Don't you learn geography in your madrassas?

Freedom of speech means freedom of speech. That means freedom of expression. You are free to have your restrictive Muslim laws in your own countries. We have the laws we vote for in our countries, and your Mohammad is not relevant. He is not a player. Your religion has no application in our laws in the West. Do as you like in your own countries.

I think Muslims they are doing their job..Aren`t they have the selection freedom to buy from people of respect.Keep your danish cheese for you and your laws.

Muslims must contain their "job" to their own countries and not trash up our streets with threatening, infantile signs and shouting and ambulatory black tablecloths and pillowcases.

It is your absolute right not to buy delicious Danish cheese or butter. Just as it is your absolute right not to buy Danish bacon. Just keep your religion and your women dressed in mobile black prisons off our streets. The day is coming, by the way, when we outlaw the burqa as being against women's human rights.

Verity, why you avoid the “Holocaust” issue are you afraid to be put in the jail or you are part of the Zionism’s who control the west. Let me listen to your freedom of speech.

Avoiding what Holocaust issue? There is no Holocaust issue other than in Austria and most people in the Anglosphere - in fact, I would wager, all of us - think the Austrian law is stupid.

People in Britain are free to deny that the Holocaust happened, if they are crazy enough to ignore all the evidence. Irving would not have been arrested in Britain. People would just have regarded him as bonkers, but we cannot have people prosecuted for their beliefs, however crazy. In the Anglosphere, we are free to say anything we like, regardless of whether it causes offence to the hearer.

As a British voter, I am not responsible for the laws that Austria makes.

How soft your wards are. You should insist for freedom of speech! Read this
Jerusalem Post, article written by a Jew and not Zionist:
We cannot consistently hold that cartoonists have a right to mock religious figures but that it should be a criminal offense to deny the Holocaust. I believe that we should stand behind freedom of speech. And that means that David Irving should be freed.

I don't understand your point. I have already said it is absurd that David Irving is in prison in Austria, but the laws of Austria have nothing to do with British citizens. I believe he should be free to deny the Holocaust if that's what he believes - although I think he is bonkers.

No religion and no individual is above mockery. Freedom of expression is paramount to the advance of civilisation.

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